Why such brutal travel schedules?

[ghs1968]

This post is piggy backing on the post about BWSL and the decision to withdraw from a tournament. I'm hoping that someone can give some rational explanation(s) for coaches/parents and their decision to enter so many tournaments during the July viewing period.

There are teams that will literally play 10 games or so in 6 day period without any off days or just as many games with one day off in between tournaments if they are lucky.

I have sat back an observed and analyzed quite a bit over the past 4-5 years as it relates to exposure tournaments and recruiting in general. This is what i've concluded - the points are open to debate.

1) Why is there a need for these teenagers to play so many games during the recruiting period? I think they run the risk of fatigue, burnout, and more importantly injury. Who are we fooling............what good are most of these kids after playing in their 10th games in 5/6 days?????
** The WNBA doesn't play such a brutal schedule
** They won't have that brutal of a schedule in college (2-3 games a week)
** They don't have that brutal of a HS schedule (again, 2-3 games in a week)

2) I've watched college coaches (and have been told this by college coaches as well) and have seen them literally sitting there laughing and talking and not paying attention to a particular game. I've also seen a player make a spectacular play and coaches not even blink an eye. My point is this - these coaches can tell within a minute or two (be it in a game or in warm ups) if a particular player can play and if that play "might" be a fit for their program.

I think if more parents were educated in the process they would help their kids drive the process instead of letting the process drive them. A coach doesn't have to see a player play in 5 different tournaments and 10 different games in order to evaluate that player's talent.

The following advice is for the majority of parents and not the parents of the small percentage of ELITE players who have enough ranking/hype that coaches are already drooling over them.

-- A highlight DVD sent out to a list of schools and then followed up by an introductory email and schedule does wonders for generating interest. As long as you've send quality material to the coach they will definitely watch the "commercial" you've sent them and then follow up by dropping by the "show" to at least peak at your daughter play.

-- Have your daughter identify 2-3 camps (Elite or position camps that will have HS age players only to ensure a competitive and intense environment) of schools of interest and sent her to those camps during the summer. If this means missing some HS time in June or even travel team time - so be it. The coaches can talk to the players in greater detail during June if they get them on campus. If your daughter stands out she'll more than likely land on their recruiting list if not already on the list. Although some schools send out camp brochures to a broad list of players from mailing lists they may have, my daughter received invites to the Elite/Position camps specifically because of the DVD the school received. (I can't recall the name but Purdue just got a verbal from a player from South Dakota I believe who did the DVD and Elite camp and was offered at the camp...she doesn't really even play travel ball due to the lack of opportunities in her area)

-- Attend regional individual showcases. I can't speak about how these are run in the different areas of the country, but Brandon Clay (Peach State Basketball) puts on Individual Showcases that are A1 in quality in the Atlanta area. They cost about 100.00 and the player gets at least 4 games or so in front of 30-50 coaches!!!! (that might be on the low end)


If you have a daugher who is a very solid player and you are willing to put in the time and effort to do the above you will have generated interest from quite a few schools.

[pgcop]

interesting post with some food for thought, I heard of the camp thing on another post. I know some teams have a large roster and may alternate playing time to let the kids rest.

[ClayKallam]

The system is designed for the benefit of the college coaches, and is manipulated by the summer team programs. Parents and players, who don't understand the reality of the situation, cycle in and out so quickly they seldom grasp what's actually happening.

Coaches, for the most part, do not spend much time evaluating players. It takes them about 20 minutes to determine if a player is right for their program. What they do after that is babysit: They watch the players they want over and over again because if they don't, another coach will tell the players the original coach doesn't really care about them.

It's incredibly wasteful and stupid, at a number of levels.

Just because your summer team goes to the End of the Trail, or wherever, doesn't mean any college coaches will see it play -- unless you're on the main court with all the superstars.

Girls don't need to play so many games, and in fact the tournament process has no relation to college reality. In college, teams play two games a week, and coaches need players who can play hard twice a week for 30 minutes. In summer tournaments, the kid with great stamina looks wonderful, until you realize the ability to play six games in three days means nothing in college, where that never happens. The girl whose genetic makeup is such that she can go hard for a full game, and then needs a day to recover, is punished in the summer format, even though she's perfectly suited for college. And the kid who just keeps going and going may discover that her stamina gains her no advantage in college when everyone's fresh for every game.

I could go on, but the summer system is a classic committee decision: It really doesn't work for anyone, but there are too many vested interests to change it.

[ifyousayso]

and absolutely...

Clay you hit the nail on the head. Some programs dont let their star players announce that they have verballed until after summer ball going into their senior year, so the coaches will flock their games and potentially provide better exposure for other players.

The ones that do verbal early, the colleges attend all of their events, just a Clay stated for territorial reasons. The College Coaches tell the players they are just there to support them, but, in actuality they are there to protect there property.

Could it be that the viewing periods should be more spread out than having two weeks in July? Maybe the 1 Spring Weekend, 1 Summer Week and Fall Weekend... the inbetween times players can be attending camps or developing themselves... or maybe just resting their bodies.

[ClayKallam]

I like it ... it just doesn't take that long for college coaches to evaluate talent, and there's no reason for kids to go on the road for the month of July and play a gazillion games.

Stay home, work on your skills and play with guys: That's the recipe for becoming the best basketball player you can be. The summer circuit is a recipe for tournament organizer profits -- though it's true some kids enjoy the process and their families don't mind spending their money. But then, who doesn't like playing games instead of working on weaknesses?

[BrooklynSaints]

You all make some excellent points. Looking at it from a Brooklyn perspective I could only wonder what are the alternatives.

What would the girls be doing if they were not playing in July?

Glenn noted in his write up of Prahalis that she works with a personal trainer, Jerry Powell. Jerry Powell charges by the hour. I would think that would be quite pricey for the average Brooklyn player.

Most gyms in Brooklyn are closed in the summer.

The parks are an option but that means playing on concrete in 90+ degree temperatures.

Also boys are not lining up to play with girls in Brooklyn. Its a no win situation. If a boy loses he is ridiculed and if he goes hard he is put down.

Even if the girl were to find a group of boys willing to play, how would this be better than playing in an organized setting. Would the girl truly improve or just continue to make the same mistakes?

My guess is that most girls in Brooklyn would sit at home, sleep, watch TV and chat online. Not to mention the temptations of drugs, alcohol, sex and fights.

[ClayKallam]

An excellent point ...

But why do the girls need to travel to Atlanta to play? And why do they need to play with an all-star team? (The answer there is they need good competition -- and playing with guys doesn't mean playing with boys. Girls can find pickup games with older guys, who are as threatened by girls and who play the game with intelligence, and they will get all the competition they need there.)

They could just stay at home, play with their high school teammates in local tournaments, and work on their skills on their own or with local coaches. If they want to spend the money and play all over the country, that's fine -- but why do the tournaments have to be back-to-back? Why not play four tournaments in the summer, or three? And spread them out so the kids are fresh?

And, most of all, don't make it seem like missing a single summer tournament or exposure event is going to cost a kid a scholarship. The reverse is actually true: She probably only really needs to play in one -- all the rest are profit centers for tournament directors, and some AAU programs.

[scoutnwhoops]

Why can't the evaluation period be spread over the entire summer June-August? Five days at the end of June, 5 days in mid july, 5 days in late July and 5 days in mid August. The kids would get some rest in between and so would the coaches.

[hoopfan24]

You all make some excellent points. Looking at it from a Brooklyn perspective I could only wonder what are the alternatives.

What would the s be doing if they were not playing in July?

Glenn noted in his write up of Prahalis that she works with a personal trainer, Jerry Powell. Jerry Powell charges by the hour. I would think that would be quite pricey for the average Brooklyn player.

Most gyms in Brooklyn are closed in the summer.

The parks are an option but that means playing on concrete in 90+ degree temperatures.

Also boys are not lining up to play with s in Brooklyn. Its a no win situation. If a boy loses he is ridiculed and if he goes hard he is put down.

Even if the were to find a group of boys willing to play, how would this be better than playing in an organized setting. Would the truly improve or just continue to make the same mistakes?

My guess is that most s in Brooklyn would sit at home, sleep, watch TV and chat online. Not to mention the temptations of , alcohol, and fights.

Alot of good points are being made.

As for my daughter - the local university around the corner is a Div. 1 school and the coach has allowed my daughter to come and play in open gym with the Women's basketball team, even though they are not recruiting her. This has been huge for her, it builds confidence, speed and all of the other things needed to play at that next level.

[nashlvfan]

Clay,

Here in TN, the HS association has limited the time HS coaches can spend with their team. They have also limited the number of HS players from the same team can play together during the summer. It would be nice if they could practice with their local teams, but it's just not possible. I am a parent who's child is running across country this year. She is playing alot more this year as 14u than she did as 13u. As a parent I wasn't prepared for it. She loves it. I asked her point blank about a tournament that her coach wants her to play with the 16u team because they are going to be short handed. I asked her did she like playing all the time like this. She said yes. As for the wear & tear on her body, she works out with a trainer 5 days a week when she is @ home. Her workout with the trainer (in which she doesnt pick up a basketball) is a lot harder than her actual game. For her this works. For kids whose bodies are not prepared but just go and play, playing in so many tournaments & the amount of travel, can cause damage.

[BrooklynSaints]

Why can't the evaluation period be spread over the entire summer June-August? Five days at the end of June, 5 days in mid july, 5 days in late July and 5 days in mid August. The kids would get some rest in between and so would the coaches.

I think that is a good idea but it still will not solve the problem.

A team like Exodus not only is playing in The End of trail in Oregon they are also playing in every small local tournament all over NYC. The local tournament directors arrange the schedule so the travel teams don't miss any games. If you change the evaluation period the local schedule of games will also change so the girls will still not get rest.

One Question: When you were a teenager, how many hours a day did you play in the summer?

[ifyousayso]

I get what your saying Saints.. I think... that most of these players if not in a tournament somewhere would probably be on a court, blacktop, gym somewhere anyway. But, I think alot of the fatigue also comes when you have cross country schedules, changing time zones and an eradict sleep schedule on top of the pressures to perform and win in the name of exposure sake.

It would be nice for the players, just like the College Coaches, to have a "black out" period as well. Maybe 2-3 weeks in which they can not play in any tournaments across the board, whether local or across the country.

Or possibly down the road some type of regulation that only permits X amount of games in a 24 hour period... I know this is starting to sound governmental, but, I do believe these kids need a stretch in the summer to have a regular routine.

[asiancoach]

What if they do like the allstar games for seniors and limit kids to only 2 tourney's pre summer? I really like the present stuff for selfish reasons because I like to travel and see games but I really like the high school season better.

[BrooklynSaints]

I get what your saying Saints.. I think... that most of these players if not in a tournament somewhere would probably be on a court, blacktop, gym somewhere anyway. But, I think alot of the fatigue also comes when you have cross country schedules, changing time zones and an eradict sleep schedule on top of the pressures to perform and win in the name of exposure sake.

It would be nice for the players, just like the College Coaches, to have a "black out" period as well. Maybe 2-3 weeks in which they can not play in any tournaments across the board, whether local or across the country.

Or possibly down the road some type of regulation that only permits X amount of games in a 24 hour period... I know this is starting to sound governmental, but, I do believe these kids need a stretch in the summer to have a regular routine.

It may surprise you but the cross country schedule is easier for me than playing locally.

When I am in another state I have my players and I have full control. I regulate when they eat, sleep, play and rest. I was in Atlanta 7/6 thru 7/9. It was a breeze.

Once I got back to NYC the problems started. I have to pick up most of my players. One girls could not be found. The parents have no idea where she was and its 6:30 A.M.. It took me 30 minutes to find her and put her in the van. She was in no condition to play the first game since she was up all night on the computer.

Eratic sleep schedules occur at home not on the road.

[ghs1968]

I think everyone is raising valid points on this topic. I understand where you are coming from Brooklyn. I really just wanted to drive home the point that is it absolutely not necessary to have such a packed summer schedule in order to garner attention from college coaches. Some of the "slicker" AAU/Travel coaches will give parents/players the sales pitch that it is absolutely necessary. I've just sat back and watched and listened so much over the past 3-4 years and decided to take more of an active role in my daughter's recruiting.

I have taken the approach that I outlined earlier in the post. I've sent out 2 rounds of highlight DVDs that I made myself. I simply used a video card to convert VHS to digital format and then edited and burned the DVDs myself. I sent out 75 DVDs in April and another 40 about 2 weeks ago. (I realize that a lot of parents might not have those resources) I had her follow up with emails to the head recruiter if I could tell who it was on the school's website (and to the head coach ONLY if necessary). My daughter was a little slow in getting some of the emails out that introduced herself, her summer schedule and her coaches contact info. Back in May, her HS coach gave her a packet from Kay Yow ( NC State) as she received the DVD and actually mailed the packet to the HS coach as we did attach a label on each DVD sleeve with her name, number, class, height, weight, and high school name. An assistant at Tulane called the HS coach to have a discussion about her after seeing the DVD and wanted her to come down to the Elite camp this past June. (Tulane would have been too expensive with me having to take more time off and flying so we couldn't accept that one)

Next June we'll target between 3-5 camps of targeted colleges to go to and will hopefully have an offer by the end of June next year before that stressful July period comes.

It's really just another or different way of looking at things and taking control of the process, instead of being controlled by the process.

[NYTraveller]

I think your approach is well thought out (not to mention sane!). One of the problems is that parents don't have the expertise or distance to realistically evaluate their daughters' abilities and that can lead to perceived failure with your method.

For example, if I have stars in my eyes and believe my daughter is a legit Big East prospect and send videos, introductory letters, etc. to say, Seton Hall, St Johns, Providence and Syracuse, but she's really a marginal D1 prospect at best (and that's still a pretty good ballplayer in the scheme of things, let's not forget) - I may not get a response. If I sent the tape to a MAAC school like Manhattan or Fairfield, or a good D2 like Bentley or Southern Connecticut, (schools my daughter's skills are more suited for) more than likely all ends well.

When parents are poorly educated about how the process works, the door is open for a club coach (for the most part uncertified and unsupervised by any independent authority) to pitch that playing for his team will guarentee exposure, and maybe that elusive scholarship, all for a fee of $x. You may even end up subsidizing a "star" players registration fee under the justification that the big guns will come out to see her and may like my kid in the 3-4 minutes she gets a game. Now, I know that the majority of folks in the club game are out for the kids' benefit, but the fact remains, the potential for abuse in the current system is almost a built-in likelihood, and that suggests that maybe there is a better way to satisfy the needs of the colleges and the recruits more efficiently and intelligently.

I like your suggestion very much, as long as the parents are realistic about schools to target.

[BrooklynSaints]

I think everyone is raising valid points on this topic. I understand where you are coming from Brooklyn. I really just wanted to drive home the point that is it absolutely not necessary to have such a packed summer schedule in order to garner attention from college coaches. Some of the "slicker" AAU/Travel coaches will give parents/players the sales pitch that it is absolutely necessary. I've just sat back and watched and listened so much over the past 3-4 years and decided to take more of an active role in my daughter's recruiting.

I have taken the approach that I outlined earlier in the post. I've sent out 2 rounds of highlight DVDs that I made myself. I simply used a video card to convert VHS to digital format and then edited and burned the DVDs myself. I sent out 75 DVDs in April and another 40 about 2 weeks ago. (I realize that a lot of parents might not have those resources) I had her follow up with emails to the head recruiter if I could tell who it was on the school's website (and to the head coach ONLY if necessary). My daughter was a little slow in getting some of the emails out that introduced herself, her summer schedule and her coaches contact info. Back in May, her HS coach gave her a packet from Kay Yow ( NC State) as she received the DVD and actually mailed the packet to the HS coach as we did attach a label on each DVD sleeve with her name, number, class, height, weight, and high school name. An assistant at Tulane called the HS coach to have a discussion about her after seeing the DVD and wanted her to come down to the Elite camp this past June. (Tulane would have been too expensive with me having to take more time off and flying so we couldn't accept that one)

Next June we'll target between 3-5 camps of targeted colleges to go to and will hopefully have an offer by the end of June next year before that stressful July period comes.

It's really just another or different way of looking at things and taking control of the process, instead of being controlled by the process.

I agree you need to take control of the process.

A parent should never let a coach be in charge of the process. I never understood how parents could go their whole life making their own decisions. Parents buy houses, cars, raise a family. Then suddenly they need an AAU coach to decide where their child will go to college.

It sounds like you are putting a lot of effort in your approach. According to your note you have mailed 115 DVDs to college coaches. What would worry me is why you have only received 2 responses. I'm not sure what that means but it sounds like a large reach to think you will have an offer by next June.

Are you saying you are doing this in addition to traveling to exposure tournaments? Or are you doing this instead of traveling?

With my daughter we followed the travel tournament approach. We received correspondence from about 90 schools. We then called the schools we were interested in and began the process. We never forwarded any DVDs or tapes. We never attended any elite camps. I'm not saying the tapes would not have worked. They just were not necessary.

I'm also not sure how if your daughter attends an elite camp with 50 other girls that she will be the one to get an offer.

Note: Everything you are saying may work fine for you. Just on the surface I have a lot of questions about the approach.

[ghs1968]

Great point NYtraveller!!! I was one of those parents that stepped back and thought seriously about where my daughter would fit in. She is not a superstar, but is a very very solid and smart basketball player. She'll more than likely be a mid-major player or a high D1 for a school in a major conference that more than often struggles and does not make the NCAA tournament most of the time. (ACC/SEC.......Alabama,South Carolina, Clemson, Miami, Wake Forest)

I understand what you are saying about some parents. The parents that I have been around the past 3-4 years on my daughter's teams and teams around my area are professional or working class parents for the most part who are internet savvy and who have the resources to attend the out of town tournaments and pay the hotel costs, admission fees, gas and food costs..etc. They probably just haven't taken the time to do a little research and find out how the process works and do get caught up in the system that we call "exposure".

I'm not trying to sound like i'm against kids being involved in the exposure tournaments because I do like the idea of them - just not in such an "ends to a means" way that they appear to have become. I just think there is such a thing as over exposure.

[ifyousayso]

When does your daughter graduate high school GHS1968?

[teammom4]

Kids are on two paths these days. For some the objective is to get a scholly for others the objective is to get a scholly, while getting local & national accolades, the latter is the one that puts the pressure to play on the circuit on the kid & parent & gives the coach the leverage to almost mandate your kid be there. If you are not around on the summer circuit for scouts & evaluators to see you playing against other top comp., its hard to obtain these accolades.

[ghs1968]

Point well taken teammom if accolades/rankings is the objective. If a scholly is the objective then there are still lots of parents who think that the summer circuit is a necessary component.

Ifyousayso...........she graduates in '09.

[ClayKallam]

The summer circuit is not a necessity to get a scholarship. There's an SEC player who never played a minute of summer ball, and they found her. Sophia Young came out of nowhere to shine at Baylor, and now in the WNBA. Armintie Price was far from overexposed.

From Northern California, Amanda Lassiter had a long WNBA career, and barely played summer ball. Kayte Christensen was not a summer regular either, and she too is in the WNBA.

It's important to remember that there are more D1 scholarships than there are D1-caliber players, and that coaches are always on the lookout for the kid who others didn't see. If you do your homework, make some contacts and play in a few events that you know will be attended by the coaching staff of schools you're interested in, you don't need to travel across the country and pay tournament directors and exposure camp directors big fees.

On the other hand, if it's fun and the travel and expense is not an issue, go for it. I have to say, though, that a 15-year-old girl who says she wants to keep playing and that she loves it, etc., may not be the best one to make that decision. First, as we all know, 15-year-olds' desires and what's best for them are not always the same thing. Second, kids burn out and break down unexpectedly. One day they love basketball (or swimming or crocheting) and then the next, the accumulation of doing too much of the same thing jumps up and bites them, and they don't care any more. (Read what Chamique Holdsclaw has to say about her career). And overuse injuries are much more common as kids get older -- what works at 14 won't work at 16. Most physical training specialists feel that teens should take a month off a year from their main sport to allow their bodies to heal from the repetitive motions that will break them down. Stress fractures, knee injuries, ankle injuries and back injuries can all be minimized with proper rest.

In short, I think the benefits of summer basketball are way overemphasized by those who stand to gain financially from the idea that participation is almost mandatory, and parents unschooled in the process blindly follow along -- led by their daughters who don't necessarily know what's best for themselves and their bodies.

[Hoopsking]

Wow! Haven't heard from Clay in a minute.

Everyone from Clay to Saints has great points. I spent a total of 11-days out on the road traveling from NY, to North Carolina to Atlanta and now back to N.Y. There's a week off due to the dead period and then I'm off to D.C. for the Junior Nationals and then will conclude at the Big Apple TOC at Seton Hall. My final destination will be at Mike Flynn's Blue Star Elite Camp in August.

Does this sound tiring? I'm not a player, but I can tell you the travel and spending hours in the gym has taken a toll mentally and physically on me. But I love it.

My daughter loves to travel and spend time away from home. But, all these games are starting to wear her down a bit. I use the month of June and July so that she can work on her game. The sweet thing about her playing in the summer is that she's put into tournaments playing against 16 and 17's. She smart enough to know that the college coaches are recruiting for now. She also benefits by playing against bigger, faster and stronger players. She doesn't need to play against boys. When she's playing against players such as April Sykes or Nikki Speed, she doesn't need to play against boys. So I would say that you can use travel ball to gain challenges and get better as a player.

Not every team is made for traveling, as they don't really have the personnel to deal with the competition. College coaches know the top programs such as the Liberty Belles, Essense, West Coast Elite, Georgia Metros, Exodus, etc. Those programs will attract coaches by their name alone. So, if you have an average player having a good game, they may benefit from playing travel ball with those types of programs.

Some AAU programs use summer travel ball for the wrong reasons. Some use it knowing that their team can't compete at that level of play. Therefore you see 50 to 60 point blowouts. Once the college coaches see a mediocre game, they will not waste their time watching the team the next time they play, unless you are playing against an elite AAU team.

Now imagine what players go through playing 2 games a day, sleeping on gym floors waiting for the next game. Traveling on buses, etc.

I've witnessed pretty good players who are trying their best, but seemed mentally and physically worn down. I've seen players trying to do their thing in front of college coaches. I've seen a lot of injuries, etc.

Ask some people out there why Elena Delladonne is not playing the summer circuit. I'll tell you why. She's mentally worn out from playing all this basketball since she was about 10-years old. Ask Nicole Kaczmarksy why she dropped out of basketball. Ask Chamique Holdsclaw why she no longer wanted to play the game.

In conclusion, I believe that the parents have to be realistic with their kids. Does the kid need to get to expose events, or does the kid need to work and improve on their game?

It depends on the age of the kid. A kid going into 8th grade should be improving their game and getting prepared for H.S. basketball. Many kids are still growing and some of them may eventually stop playing ball.

If you are in the smaller venues Elite camps are the way to go. Like Clay said, someone will find you out there. There are a lot more D1 scholarships than D1 caliber players.

[georgiaelite]

Folks you can think the top 10 colleges for the smaller window in spring summer and fall they did not want to be out and were being out worked by the 20-50 D-1 schools. An asst at a top ranked school told me 2 years ago what was goimg to happen and that the WBCA was pushing for a smaller window. I don't know about other states but in Georgia high schools have no limit on the no of games they can play in June so along with the summer schedule a girl could 50-100 games that is to much. I would like to see 2 weeks in spring 6 weeks in summer and 2 weeks in fall. It would also cut back on the cost because you would have more to choose from to attend.

[arbitraryj]

Wow. Thanks all.
People have been treating me like I'm crazy for thinking this way. Nice to see I'm not alone. Our family fell into this year round thing without a clue. My daughter loves the travel. I can't wait for it to end. As expensive as it gets, I started asking 'If this is the only way to get a scholly, how do kids who can't afford this get into D1s?' No one has ever had a reasonable answer. I've been rebelling ever since.

I also look at Candice Dupree of the Chicago Sky and see she wasn't a big ball player before college and now she's not just a pro-she's a WNBA all-star!

Parents- be educated consumers- stop buying into the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) that these profiteers are selling.

Life is short and childhood is even shorter.
Take your kids to the beach!