Question on Liz Lay

[quedash]

If she did so well on a national stage against quality bigs, why shouldn't she get five stars? Barbara Turner was 5'10 and played for UConn at the 4, shouldn't Liz Lay be able to do the same- assuming she continues to perform at a high level.

[joemontes]

If she did so well on a national stage against quality bigs, why shouldn't she get five stars? Barbara Turner was 5'10 and played for UConn at the 4, shouldn't Liz Lay be able to do the same- assuming she continues to perform at a high level.

I watched 6'1 Liz LAY, Tulsa Swoosh's undersized post player, in 2 high-profile games yesterday. In the first game, she totally outplayed the 3 bigs of West Coast Elite Black - 6'4 Kelsey BONE (#1 overall from Class of 2009), 6'4 Ashley GAYLE (#57 from the Class of 2008), and 6'3 Monique OLIVER (probably a top 25 player form the Class of 2009) - in their upset win at the 2007 EOT tournament division semis game. And, then, in the division championship game vs. Exodus NYC later that night, she forced 6'3 Shakeya LEARY (#41 from the Class of 2008) into early foul trouble, rendering the latter ineffective throughout the game.

The thing about her is that she not only has a very strong inside game, but she can also stroke it from beyond the arc. She was also able to dribble her way from the high post and finish around the basket against any of the above-mentioned quality post players. I would probably compare her to a Charles BARKLEY, an undersized PF with an all-around offensive game.

Having also seen PF or C prospects like # 7 Nneka OGWUMIKE/6'3, #16 LaSondra BARRETT/6'1, #20 Alyssia BREWER, #41 Shakeya LEARY/6'3, and #57 Ashley GAYLE/6'4 at least 2 games each, I would probably rate the 6'1 Liz LAY in the same level as BARRETT and BREWER, i.e., in the lower echelon of 5-star players, as far as her offensive skills are concerned. Of course, my assessment is only based on 2 games, but 2 games against 4-star and 5-star post players.

[quedash]

joemontes

I was thinking Charles Barkley also based on the write up. If a player can play who cares what her height is, she will make some coach like really smart if she continues to play at a high level as a D-1 prospect. This is the first time I have heard her name, but I was a little perturbed that her height would determine her ranking. No offense to you Chris and Glenn.

[glenn]

We are trying not to hand out five-star ratings like candy and saving those for some heavy contemplation. We are not planning to re-do rankings and ratings until after the July evaluation period, so Liz Lay's four stars are simply a provisional rating. We're pretty much thinking along the same lines as Joe ... but a lot of basketball remains to be played. To wit, if we'd made a knee-jerk move and, say, ranked Liz Lay ahead of LaSondra Barrett, how would we have looked today, when Barrett truly lived up to her high rating?

[YourCrimsonNightmare]

I don't think any prospect should have a final ranking based upon one tournament, but I know that you guys can only do so much. Lay has generated some notable commentary on Oklahoma high school and recruiting boards as an up-and-coming player (First Team All-State this year), but I hope you get to evaluate her in more than one tournament this year.

I'm looking forward to seeing how one of her teammates does at the TOC in December with her veteran team, because not all teams are equal, and seeing contributions in entirely different situations can be quite revealing.

I'm not totally surprised that Tulsa Swoosh came within a blink of the final four, but the very fact that they beat WCE and took Exodus to the limit is more impressive than I would have expected.

I will say that Oklahoma girls basketball is rapidly improving, and much of that impetus comes from the near goddess-like esteem of Sherri Coale in the state. She is rapidly achieving the type of esteem that Bud Wilkinson used to have, and the many of the young playersdream of playing on her team. It sounds similar to what Pat Summit did years ago, but it's a real phenomenon.

Regardless of your rankings, most of the top players will find the teams of their dreams, or at least the right teams for them.

[quedash]

Glenn

Again, I meant no offense, and I agree she has to continue to perform; but it seems your eval was ruling her out for a 5 star rating becaue of her height- instead of her skills. Also, I understand that she has to continue to perform and it is wise not to give out 5 stars like candy. I guess I should have asked the question Are you saying Liz Lay will not be rated as a 5 star because of her height? I believe I misinterpreted your eval on how high she can be rated. Besides, I'm just part of the peanut gallery and I am in no way qualified to state who should be ranked higher among the players; especially since I haven't seen any of them play.

[scoutnwhoops]

Great points in this thread which come from us doing the rankings live in front of you. There are two elements here, number of viewings which is usually the highest for the elite level players because of events like the TOC, USA Basketball and Nike Skills Academy. In this case we've got only one tournament, however the games we did see her play she was playing against the best and seeing her next weekend in another tournament we may not see the same level of competition. So if you're only going to see a kid in one tournament or just two games then the two teams we watched were about as good as it gets to compare her against top players at her position as well as top teams in general.

As Glenn said we're not going to updated the rankings until August when we can digest everything. Lay will be debated I'm sure as much as any player because of her performance.

Barkley is a good comparison, she is a pit bull in the paint and versatile as well.